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by Mayavi Morpheus » Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:50 pm

This is nice



Alcohol is legal for all but UAE nationals, although some locals, even those wearing their distinctive national dress, risk a fine to join the expatriate revellers in the city's bars.

And everyone from Western tourists to visiting Saudis is free to party until the early hours in nightclubs playing everything from R&B to Arabic dance music.

No laws dictate whether UAE women must wear the veil and full-length cloak known as the abaya - although most choose to do so. All religions are permitted, but trying to convert Muslims is banned. The government promotes moderate Islam.

Apart from in Dubai, in the UAE Sharia courts can punish adultery, prostitution, and drug or alcohol abuse with flogging - albeit carefully regulated to avoid serious injury.

A multitude of police officers keep order. Visitors comment on how safe and clean the city feels.




beebs
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by Xeno » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:14 pm

Mayavi Morpheus wrote:
ps: If it helps, I have a paki gf. So you see I dont hate all pakis.

pps: You seem to have ignored the content of the news paper.




Oh common ,its gives me more insight into the wild imaginations of a sick mind,if that illusion keeps you or makes you happy live with it,anyways its not related to the topic here..
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by lonewolf » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:56 pm

Xeno, it would be good if you stick to your points instead of making personal comments on others. If you've noticed, DQ never makes direct personal attacks on anybody.
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by Mayavi Morpheus » Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:22 am

Xeno wrote:Oh common ,its gives me more insight into the wild imaginations of a sick mind,if that illusion keeps you or makes you happy live with it,anyways its not related to the topic here..




May be she is a product of my imagination. But donot let that stop you from posting your jewels of wisdom here. Why not refute the points I made instead of posting crap about RSS and derailing thread? Is that because you are clueless about whats going on here and find it your obligation to post nonsense everywhere the word Islam is mentioned?
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by Xeno » Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:28 am

Mayavi Morpheus wrote:
Xeno wrote:Oh common ,its gives me more insight into the wild imaginations of a sick mind,if that illusion keeps you or makes you happy live with it,anyways its not related to the topic here..


May be she is a product of my imagination. But donot let that stop you from posting your jewels of wisdom here. Why not refute the points I made instead of posting crap about RSS and derailing thread? Is that because you are clueless about whats going on here and find it your obligation to post nonsense everywhere the word Islam is mentioned?




The thing is ,there is nothing to refute when you stick to RSS ideology and post loads and loads of Bull shit like the musings of a drunk white man in one of your posts,its a case beyond repair,you need serious pshychiartric help ,befoe you annihilate yourself ... :lol: :lol:
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by Mayavi Morpheus » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:32 am

Xeno wrote:The thing is ,there is nothing to refute




Then why are you crapping all over here? Stay out of this thread if there is nothing you can contribute to the discussion. :evil:
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by CtrlAltDel » Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:34 pm

f u c k off xeno....:x



contribute something useful to the debate or go jerk off in private....





i apologize to my friend DQ for calling Xeno his brother a few posts ago... :cry:
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by paris_dakar » Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:36 am

hmmm..CAD you've been a cool customer so long as i've known. Seem pretty upset by Xeno.
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by CtrlAltDel » Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:26 am

paris_dakar wrote:hmmm..CAD you've been a cool customer so long as i've known. Seem pretty upset by Xeno.
problem with Xeno is that he doesnt know how to debate...he descends to personal attacks just coz he has no arguements to support what he says. such ppl piss me off.
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by paris_dakar » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:57 am

Well...his id is xeno..phobic...?
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by CtrlAltDel » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:50 am

paris_dakar wrote:Well...his id is xeno..phobic...?
naah! he seems too dumb to be xenophobic...

xenophobes at least try to sound intelligent while making their claims.



and come to think of it 'xeno' is an anagram for 'oxen' :lol:
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by paris_dakar » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:28 am

what up Xeno? did you run out of ammo or just enjoying the attn?
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by lonewolf » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:51 am

CtrlAltDel wrote:and come to think of it 'xeno' is an anagram for 'oxen' :lol:


That explains his love for cows ;)
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by Xeno » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:53 am

lonewolf wrote:
CtrlAltDel wrote:and come to think of it 'xeno' is an anagram for 'oxen' :lol:

That explains his love for cows ;)




Keep typing you prick..Yaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn
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by lonewolf » Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:01 am

Xeno wrote:
lonewolf wrote:
CtrlAltDel wrote:and come to think of it 'xeno' is an anagram for 'oxen' :lol:

That explains his love for cows ;)


Keep typing you prick..Yaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn




Did you send out your resume yet? Let me know when you hear from them. When is the party? ;)
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by Mayavi Morpheus » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:45 pm

Rushdie urges Islamic reformation
Salman Rushdie
Rushdie argues the Koran should be seen as a historical document
Islam needs to be reformed to bring it into the modern era, the Indian-born Muslim novelist Salman Rushdie argues.


A broader interpretation of the Koran would lead to better relations and cut alienation, he writes in the Times.

This would also combat jihadist ideologies that led to the 7 July London terror attacks, Rushdie argues.

Rushdie spent years in hiding because an Islamic fatwa ordered his death over allegedly blasphemous passages in his book The Satanic Verses.

The former Iranian spiritual leader Ayatollah Khomeini issued the religious edict calling for his execution in February 1989.


The Islamic Reformation has to begin here, with an acceptance that all ideas, even sacred ones, must adapt to altered realities
Salman Rushdie

In his comment piece for the Times, Rushdie says Muslims in some parts of Britain lead lives separated from the rest of the communities.

In such insular circles, "young men's alienations can easily deepen", he argues.

"What is needed is a move beyond tradition - nothing less than a reform movement to bring the core concepts of Islam into the modern age.

"A Muslim Reformation to combat not only the jihadi ideologues but also the dusty, stifling seminaries of the traditionalists, throwing open the windows of the closed communities to let in much-needed fresh air."

He also argues that the Koran should be studied as a historical text rather than treated as "infallible".


21st Century

This has rendered all scholarly discourse impossible, he says.

"If, however, the Koran were seen as a historical document, then it would be legitimate to reinterpret it to suit the new conditions of successive new ages.

"Laws made in the seventh century could finally give way to the needs of the 21st.

"The Islamic Reformation has to begin here, with an acceptance that all ideas, even sacred ones, must adapt to altered realities."


The novelist's forthcoming tale, Shalimar the Clown, is about a young Muslim boy who is guided by a radical mullah to become an Islamic terrorist.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4140540.stm



But he is a kafir, so his views dont count.
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by DQ » Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:50 am

Mr Rushdie the so called freedom propogator purports a change in Quran.



MR Rushdie wrote:And he added, that Islam worldwide needed "A Muslim Reformation to combat not only the jihadi ideologues but also the dusty, stifling seminaries of the traditionalists, throwing open the windows of the closed communities to let in much-needed fresh air."




Hmm brings out a book named "Clown".



Hmm what does Mr Rushdie mean by "Fresh Air" abandoning the "Quran" and endorsing "Satanic Verses".



Ridiclous, People like Rushdie and Advani talking about protecting Islam and the media cashes in.
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WHY ARE THESE NOT QUOTED.

by TO CAD - MM » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:57 am

Nobody can say that Wahhabism or any other form of Muslim religious radicalism, is "not Islam," anymore than one can say that one or another extreme element in Judaism or Christianity do not belong to those faiths. Islam includes many strains. Over 1,000 years, pluralism within the faith was the norm, and traditional Muslims shied away from arguing that what they disliked was "not Islam," or that Muslims they opposed were "unbelievers." But with the rise of Wahhabism and, particularly, the benefits of petrodollars, the Wahhabi-Saudis have arrogated to themselves a position of leadership in the world Islamic community or umma. Their claim of preeminence is not Islamically sound, in the opinion of many scholars.



Leading Muslims outside the U.S. denounce Wahhabism, and many denounced the atrocity of 9/11. Unfortunately, however, most of U.S. media is completely incompetent in finding, listening to, or understanding these voices. U.S. media does not interview anti-Wahhabi sheikhs or imams or muftis in the Islamic world. U.S. media paid no attention when the head of Bosnian Islamic scholars, Mustafa efendija Ceric, preached eloquently against terrorism. U.S. media did not notice when an Albanian daily — in a country with a Muslim majority — hailed the U.S. action in Afghanistan last year with the headline "Nobody Veils the Statue of Liberty's Face." Nobody in the U.S. media has followed up on reports by myself and others showing that Kosovar Albanian Muslims would like to fight for the West in Iraq. Worse, U.S. media has reported very little of the mobilization of 70 million Indonesian Muslims against extremism in the aftermath of the Bali horror.



U.S. media listens to the so-called "Arab street," which is essentially irrelevant, filled as it is with yelling loiterers, or engages in polling exercises asking loaded questions. This, of course, reinforces the view of Muslims as unanimous haters of the West and America. To understand the struggle of the world's traditional Muslims against Wahhabism, you have to get away from the "Arab street" and meaningless people wandering around. You have to sit down with serious Islamic clerics and thinkers and dialogue with them in a way they understand and respect. I did this in the Balkans. This is one of several reasons I never tire of pointing out that, just as Orwell went to Spain, not Russia, to understand Stalinism, I went to Sarajevo, not Riyadh, to learn about Wahhabism.



I have never seen a single serious interview with an Islamic religious figure on Western television. This is in itself a shocking fact. Of course, first an interviewer would have to know who to interview and what questions to ask. But if you don't know who or what to ask you have no business proclaiming how much of the Islamic world hates us and supports terror. Proper media coverage of Islam, meaning the views of serious clerics and intellectuals, seems unlikely to happen in a media industry where Barbara Walters remains transfixed by Saudi princes handing out charity and Bill O'Reilly preens himself by referring to Islam as "the enemy's religion." In the wars with Japan and Vietnam, Buddhism was the religion of much of the enemy, but we never saw wholesale smears against Buddhists in the U.S. public square.



Of course, for much of the media, the primitive and simplistic image of Muslims as uniformly extremist and terrorist is easier to report, more popular, and "better TV" than that of a complex conflict inside a world religion. It also supports the left-wing claim that it's all our fault, or Israel's. It's so much easier to say they all hate us because of our hegemony and Zionism than to say, as I do, that they don't all hate us, and that the real issue is the battle for the soul of Islam.



As for the situation in the U.S., condemnation of Wahhabism and even of terrorism have been sparse for the following reasons:



Wahhabis (CAIR, etc.) are granted status by U.S. media as the main Islamic spokespeople. They issue ameliorative statements intended to end discussion of the problem, and they closely watch the community and prevent traditional Muslims from expressing themselves openly about Wahhabism and its involvement with terrorism. The U.S. media let them get away with this.



Most immigrant Muslims in the U.S. came to this country to get away from extremism and are horrified to see that their faith is in extremist hands here. They believed, before coming here, that the U.S. government would never permit such a thing to happen. However, their children are often indoctrinated and radicalized by extremists operating through Muslim schools, Islamic Sunday schools, and radical campus groups. That the U.S. government turned a blind idea to the Wahhabization of American Islam is deeply shocking and disturbing for them. They feel intimidated and defeated. The fact that the U.S. political and media elite have done almost nothing to enable traditional Muslims in this country to oppose Wahhabism makes the situation that much worse.



Traditional Islam rejected involvement in politics, especially radical politics. For this reason also, traditional Muslims in this country have been slow to rally against Wahhabi influence.



Finally, traditional Muslims in this country and around the world were devastated by 9/11. Their reaction was one of shock, horror, and deep depression. Even many of those who tried to deny Muslim involvement in 9/11 did so because the alternative, admitting the role of terrorism in Islam today, was almost inconceivable. This is not because of agreement with the terrorists, but because of revulsion from them. Islam may not appear as "the religion of peace" to others, but most ordinary Muslims believe it is such. The evidence of 9/11 was so overwhelmingly negative many of them can best be described as profoundly demoralized.
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Re: WHY ARE THESE NOT QUOTED.

by CtrlAltDel » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:19 pm

i agree with all that ^^^. and i see a li'l misunderstanding here. my constant refrain in this thread and its off-shoots was all about WHY WESTERN COUNTRIES AND CITIZENS HAVE A BAD IMAGE OF ISLAM AND MUSLIMS NOWADAYS.



u assumed that i was calling muslims as terrorits etc. my questions abt the wahabbis/taliban etc etc were not intended as pin pricks but to show that incidents like these create a bigger (and negative) impact than all the incidents u quoted above. and i never (mis)quoted Quran, coz i havent read it yet.



right frm my school days i had (n still have) numerous muslim friends and i dont need u to tell me that normal muslim citizens do not subscribe to those ideas and adjust their religious believes perfectly with the world.



on the other hand i have seen (and fought) some muslim youths in hydbad who were openly denouncing India n supporting Pakistan in cricket matches. since i have had more positive interactions with muslims than such negative ones, i have escaped getting a prejudiced mind. but think of other non-muslims who see only such things coz they dont have any muslim friends. what impression wud they form? thsi is exactly the same impression westerners must have if their own muslim citizens turn against them (ex- 7/7). this is what i was talking about all these days.
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by paris_dakar » Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:45 am

I don't think Muslims are isolationists, if they are so are all the sundry ethnic/religious minority communities everywhere. The friction between muslims and the western communities is not because Muslims do not wish to participate in the larger affairs of the society. The problem being discussed here is multifaceted and the responsibility does not lie with any one community, don't you think?



Lets consider some of the issues...



some people want to insulate themselves from the ills of their adopted society and that causes friction everywhere...not just with muslims. People need to understand that there needs to be a compromise...when there is a conflict of interest. Take the case of european muslims...they got issues like unemployment and so on...which get little attention. this same situation is prevalent in urban America with the black and hispanic folk and in India too (although Im not sure how much of it is based on religion)



Such a situation is fertile territory for for anyone advocating violence. And it will be better for all of us to refrain from characterising a whole community based on what a few people do. And it doesn't help anybody any bit to walk around with a chip on you shoulder blaming the world for your sorry state.
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by DQ » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:21 am

paris_dakar wrote:I don't think Muslims are isolationists, if they are so are all the sundry ethnic/religious minority communities everywhere. The friction between muslims and the western communities is not because Muslims do not wish to participate in the larger affairs of the society. The problem being discussed here is multifaceted and the responsibility does not lie with any one community, don't you think?

Lets consider some of the issues...

some people want to insulate themselves from the ills of their adopted society and that causes friction everywhere...not just with muslims. People need to understand that there needs to be a compromise...when there is a conflict of interest. Take the case of european muslims...they got issues like unemployment and so on...which get little attention. this same situation is prevalent in urban America with the black and hispanic folk and in India too (although Im not sure how much of it is based on religion)

Such a situation is fertile territory for for anyone advocating violence. And it will be better for all of us to refrain from characterising a whole community based on what a few people do. And it doesn't help anybody any bit to walk around with a chip on you shoulder blaming the world for your sorry state.




^^^ Well this summarises the discussion. Aptly Said.
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by CtrlAltDel » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:37 am

DQ wrote:...it will be better for all of us to refrain from characterising a whole community based on what a few people do....
and all these days i was just explaining why that ^^^ happens :roll:
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by DQ » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:35 am

CtrlAltDel wrote:
DQ wrote:...it will be better for all of us to refrain from characterising a whole community based on what a few people do....
and all these days i was just explaining why that ^^^ happens :roll:


"^^^^ Hmm exactly what I was explaining, couldn't drive the point until the analogy with the "Baja" was drawn."
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by paris_dakar » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:16 am

I was gonna point to another aspect of the consequences of branding a community but then I lost my train of thought...will come back fully loaded.
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by DQ » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:10 am

WHILE PARIS_DAKAR RECOLLETS HIS STRENGTH, HERES A GOOD ARTICLE.



"WALLED OFF" of "VEILED OFF THE Real Truth"



I had a good mind to start another thread but probably this is the apt place to paste this article. *****PLEASE READ IN FULL*****



****Mods why dont we have a feature where the latest post shows first?*****



Deporting Blair





Wednesday August 24 2005 18:12:30 PM BDT





Yamin Zakaria, UK





"I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar or who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values & people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage."(Lord McCauley in his speech of Feb 2, 1835, British Parliament)



Mr Blair, before you raise the subject of deportation, you need to look in the mirror, and remember that the entire episode of migration started approximately four hundred years ago; when your ancestors arrived on our shores, without a visa, without invitation and without anything to offer. They (East India Company) arrived claiming to be traders, but constantly plotted and eventually, colonised the entire continent and plundered its resources; proving to be pirates disgui! sed as businessmen. At that time, India was a fairly prosperous nation, as testified by Lord McCauley, by the time your people left in 1947/48 it was one of the poorest.



Unlike the Mogul rulers that they replaced, they never settled into the country, but pillaged its abundant raw materials, following the footsteps of their Dutch (Dutch East India Company) rivals in Indonesia. The building of roads and railways in India leading to the ports had one central purpose, transporting India's rich raw materials, which gave employment to your populated cities. The goods manufactured in England were sold back into the Indian market. It made everyone wealthy, except the Indian population who owned those resources in the first place.



Likewise, in South Africa, all the Gold and Diamond mined has effectively been stolen, this naturally made your ancestors very rich but left the native Africans very poor. Then the missionaries tried to sugar-coat the grand theft by selling them t! he Bible. Those who resisted British Imperialism physically, like the Zulus were no doubt the 'terrorists' of that time, in their own lands, and those who opposed using political means must been the preachers of 'hate'!



Many of the indigenous members who personally benefited from your rule, naturally argued in favour of British Imperialism, there are always profiteers selling their loyalties in every society. The likes of Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham MP) who passionately supports 'your' (or the US) foreign policies; he supports the actions of your armies that are helping the larger US armed forces to invade nations that have not attacked or threatened the UK or US, consequently, men, women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan have been murdered in their tens of thousands. The latest reports from Iraq, confirmed by humanitarian organisations, [1] highlight that even children are being imprisoned, raped and tortured at the hands of foreign forces. So now you are 'liberating' Iraqi children to deliver them into the clutches of sadists and paedophiles that fill that ranks in your armies, something you can't deny, as the world has seen the Abu Ghraib evidence. From Abu-Ghraib to children, surely you have now excelled Saddam Hussein.



The self-serving individuals in our midst are like the coolies that served your forefathers in the British Raj. They argue in collusion with some of the Muslim moderates in favour of deportation, desperately trying to preserve their self-interest. How is it that immigrants are now behaving like those on the far right, by using a language that is racist? Too often, I get asked the same question by those so-called 'free' thinkers with a coolie mindset - why do you live here if you oppose the policies of the British government. Am I obliged to agree with the government on every issue or leave? I thought all citizens were equal and had right to disagree, the right to speak freely against wrongs, which is also an evidence! of a free democratic society? In reality questions of "what are you doing here then?" are posed in desperation when they are unable to intellectually answer the arguments posed to them. It would be far more accurate to call such people non-thinkers, the neo-coolies of today who believe the only legitimate view, is that of "their masters."



Anyway, Mr Blair, you may have left India and most of Africa but it is doubtful you have left the other parts of the Islamic world where you and/or your American cousins continued to rule through proxy (neo-colonialism), by imposing dictatorships that align with your interests and are supported or go off script and then get toppled (Saddam for instance). A further illustration is your early version of "X-Factor," where your foreign policy found such talent amongst those illiterate Bedouins in the deserts, as they herded their goats, that you immediately recognised them as royalty and turned them all into Princes and Kings.



After ! 80 years of 'independence' these Arabs are still incapable of extracting and refining oil by themselves, as those hand-picked Arabs have no interest, no desire and no will to become independent, as long their tribes are getting fatter than the camels. It is said that "if there is a will there is a way" so the reverse must also be true. In short, styles may have changed, but good old fashioned colonialism of exploiting the resources of other nations, has not!



It is definitely unfair to continue to blame your government for all the ills in the Islamic world. However, you do still play a significant role in maintaining Western interests, by keeping the Islamic world divided into small artificial nations, as opposed to the Caliphate you have so strongly rejected. Now why would you not want the Muslims to be united and in control of their own people, resources and lands, I wonder? Maybe it is because you want to continue making lots of money? So you frown at the idea of a unifying Caliphate, and you consider it a crime for the Muslims to unify but not the Europeans or the Anglo-Saxon world. Many thanks for clarifying what you mean by democracy for the Islamic world, as many of the moderates are under the impression that you want the Muslims to decide their own destiny.



Your fanaticism against the unification of the Muslims was exposed, when Iraq invaded its own former province of Kuwait (which you had divided some 40 years earlier). It was enough to move you into military action to maintain your puppets and interests. You killed indiscriminately, women, children, the old and the retreating soldiers on the road to Basra (highway of death) without remorse, but none of that is terrorism or genocide. Let us be honest for once, the US General said "if Kuwait grew carrots we would not give a dam about its fate" and I suppose your inaction over the real genocide in Rwanda is further proof of the reasons behind your militarism in the region. Iraqis n! ever hurt your people, but you think in your arrogance you have right to do as you please.



The continuous destruction of our economies through maintaining these despotic puppet rulers, burdening our nations under crippling loans, strangling domestic industry and craft by dumping your subsidised over productions into our lands and the resulting misery, these are the main reasons why you have so many economic migrants, not counting those displaced by wars fought in your name or interests. Your successive governments have maintained colonialist foreign policies that have made our countries unliveable and ungovernable. Those ugly despotic puppets are not interested in anything beyond their tribal interests, and that suits you as long as your economic interests are met. A recent example of this petty self interest from ruling elites is the Tsunami disaster; the meanest contributors were the richest Islamic countries. Only recently we saw those same miserly regimes donating 20 mill! ion pounds to a French Museum that apparently has an 'Islamic' section, while the mothers and children in Niger, Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan starve and bleed to death.



Now, Mr Blair, you threaten to expel second and third generation Muslims who have lived peacefully in the UK. You push for their assimilation, capitulation and complete subservience to your dictates; at the same time repeating your mantra of upholding multi-cultural identity and 'freedom'! Being drunk with imperial arrogance you do not see the internal contradictions of your message. Note the distinction; we live in the UK as law abiding citizens that have made substantial contributions towards this society, unlike the example of your colonisers in our lands with stealth bombers and cruise missiles. However, deportation may not be such a bad idea, if it is carried out consistently and we all know inconsistencies are traits of hypocrites and liars, the selective application of UN resolutions naturally ! comes to mind!



So, deport the Muslims from UK, and in return Christian Anglo-Saxons should be expelled from Australia, Canada, New Zealand, America, Caribbean, South Africa, Zimbabwe etc where they have not integrated, they have refused to learn the language despite living their for years, refused to accept the desirability of the indigenous peoples culture and practises, and have instead used violence and extremism, preached hate for their neighbour, totally destroyed "their way of life," and abused their hosts hospitality. We welcome your bold and courageous steps, and welcome your applying these rules consistently across all such extremist, violent and racist communities wherever they are. Also don't forget to close all the embassies and remove the military bases and the multinational companies from the Islamic world.



Who knows, eventually the Celts in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland may also demand the deportation of your tribes. Effectively, then you would ! be quarantined to a section of your own tiny island. Then you can enjoy the company of Nick Griffin, Richard LittleJohn and all the other like minded little-people and enhance your 'cultural' diversity, while the rest of the world can finally live in real peace.



Yamin Zakaria

London, UK

[1] http://www.sundayherald.com/43796

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