Walled off...

[lonewolf]

What gives men the right to dictate to women what they should (or should not) wear?



Anyway, check the picture below. The one with the cleavage showing (on the left) is the Saudi King's neice Reema Durani. When people in Saudi, the hub of Islam, don't really care for dress code (which was actually set by Caliphs), why should we follow their Arabic tradition? Lets be Indians by culture and Christians, Hindus or Muslims by religion.



Adapting dress codes of other cultures within the Indian culture is a bad idea if it creates problems.

[CtrlAltDel]

Why did you (and the media) not come playing the Religion card when Sanias Parents went for Hajj ?
Hajj (A Muslim Pilgrimage).
-- They should not have gone when their child was playing one of the first biggest tournament of her life.
-- What is Hajj compared to such great acheivements.

Nay but you chose to stay silent. And come up braying when someone asks her to cover up.

whats yr point? u mean ppl have to object if her parents went to hajj? its their personal choice to go to hajj or not - same as sania's choice of clothes while playing.

Its simple logic dude.

:lol: if this 'simple', i'd hate to see yr complex logic...

But if she intends to be an ambassdor for the relegion (or the media intends to portray her as role model for other muslims), mmm now thats where it gets murky.

If you want to be an ambassdor for religion, then you will have to be atleast a basic adherent and "Purdah" / "hijaab" is one of them basic rules.

well...at least some of the clerics dont seem to think that way...they too agree she is a role model! even the Muslim Women Jamaat in Kerala/TamilNadu support sania's attire and asked the regressive clerics to concentrate on other problems in society (it was in ToI last week...cant find the link now). are they committing blasphemy?

Do what you want its your personal life, practice what you want again its your personal life, but if you intend to preach then you will have to adhere to the basic principles of what you preach. Final.

:? well...i practice what i preach.... or is yr stmt directed at sania? she is not preaching anything...leave her alone mere bhai...let her play well...

[betty]

Secondly, when anyone dresses to attract, she should be ready for the others drooling at her. Feigning or actually getting irritated because otehrs are staring at her is ridiculous.

Which begs the question if you are attractive ,or are you yearning for the kinda attention that you have described even after many unsuccessful attempts..

Now don't get personal Xeno...stick to the facts and logic...or is that too much to ask for?

[DQ]

Adapting dress codes of other cultures within the Indian culture is a bad idea if it creates problems.

IMHO please the latest thread I started.

[DQ]

Why did you (and the media) not come playing the Religion card when Sanias Parents went for Hajj ?
Hajj (A Muslim Pilgrimage).
-- They should not have gone when their child was playing one of the first biggest tournament of her life.
-- What is Hajj compared to such great acheivements.

Nay but you chose to stay silent. And come up braying when someone asks her to cover up.

whats yr point? u mean ppl have to object if her parents went to hajj? its their personal choice to go to hajj or not - same as sania's choice of clothes while playing.

Its simple logic dude.

:lol: if this 'simple', i'd hate to see yr complex logic...

But if she intends to be an ambassdor for the relegion (or the media intends to portray her as role model for other muslims), mmm now thats where it gets murky.

If you want to be an ambassdor for religion, then you will have to be atleast a basic adherent and "Purdah" / "hijaab" is one of them basic rules.

well...at least some of the clerics dont seem to think that way...they too agree she is a role model! even the Muslim Women Jamaat in Kerala/TamilNadu support sania's attire and asked the regressive clerics to concentrate on other problems in society (it was in ToI last week...cant find the link now). are they committing blasphemy?

Do what you want its your personal life, practice what you want again its your personal life, but if you intend to preach then you will have to adhere to the basic principles of what you preach. Final.

:? well...i practice what i preach.... or is yr stmt directed at sania? she is not preaching anything...leave her alone mere bhai...let her play well...

Thats it, what does religion have to do there.



If one cleric says something dont start your baja how many times do we have to remind you CAD.



At the same time you also tend to portray the other organisations and clerics who have come out speaking for it.



Hmm this proves that your "Baja" basically carries a sinister motive. Huh

[CtrlAltDel]

If one cleric says something dont start your baja how many times do we have to remind you CAD.

i had to start my 'baja' coz no one frm the community came of in support at that time. that silence was shocking. it was only 2 days later that a few intellectuals n groups came out for her.

At the same time you also tend to portray the other organisations and clerics who have come out speaking for it.

Hmm this proves that your "Baja" basically carries a sinister motive. Huh

eh? i thot i was being balanced in showing all the views and promoting what the sane elements said...



blamed for showing negative, blamed for showing positive.....bah!

[DQ]

negative and positive is what i meant by sinister.



dont you worry dude shes been to the US open, she will better defend herself then the ravisious ranting on these boards. Haw

[CtrlAltDel]

negative and positive is what i meant by sinister.

i think u shud brush op on english. sinister carries a very negative connotation...

sin·is·ter
adj.

Suggesting or threatening evil: a sinister smile.
Presaging trouble; ominous: sinister storm clouds.
Attended by or causing disaster or inauspicious circumstances.
.
.
.

Sinister

dont you worry dude shes been to the US open, she will better defend herself then the ravisious ranting on these boards. Haw

yup...i agree...she better not read what xeno wrote....

[DQ]

Exactly what I meant when I typed Sinister dude.



"Causing disaster or inauspicious circumstances" by supporting rants and raves spread by MMs and Smritis. Reflect think comprehend

[CtrlAltDel]

"Causing disaster or inauspicious circumstances" by supporting rants and raves spread by MMs and Smritis. Reflect think comprehend

reflected, thought and comprehended. i suggest u do the same.



1) when MM got into an ugly quote-a-thon with u n xeno i stayed away coz i had no knowledge of who was right or wrong. i even said at one point that "this discussion is going nowhere". i only stepped in when xeno started getting abusive.



2) i never supported smrithi in her rants...in fact i was vocal in opposing her views and clubbed her with xeno coz both were of the same mentality.

[lonewolf]

Talking about dress code, it has reached Barbie



This is Fulla, the Arab Barbie.



There are mixed reactions from my Arab friends.







Here's the article:



In the last year or so, Barbie dolls have all but disappeared from the shelves of many toy stores in the Middle East. In their place, there is Fulla, a dark-eyed doll with, as her creator puts it, "Muslim values."



Fulla roughly shares Barbie's size and proportions, but steps out of her shiny pink box wearing a black abaya and matching head scarf. She is named after a type of jasmine that grows in the Levant, and although she has an extensive and beautiful wardrobe (sold separately, of course), Fulla is usually displayed wearing her modest "outdoor fashion."



Fulla's creator, NewBoy Design Studio, based in Syria, introduced her in November 2003, and she has quickly become a best seller all over the region. It is nearly impossible to walk into a corner shop in Syria or Egypt or Jordan or Qatar without encountering Fulla breakfast cereal or Fulla chewing gum or not to see little girls pedaling down the street on their Fulla bicycles, all in trademark "Fulla pink."



Young girls here are obsessed with Fulla, and conservative parents who would not dream of buying Barbies for their daughters seem happy to pay for a modest doll who has her own tiny prayer rug, in pink felt. Children who want to dress like their dolls can buy a matching, girl-size prayer rug and cotton scarf set, all in pink.



Fulla is not the first doll to wear the hijab, a traditional Islamic head covering worn outside the house so a woman's hair cannot be seen by men outside her family. Mattel markets a group of collectors' dolls that include a Moroccan Barbie and a doll called Leila, intended to represent a Muslim slave girl in an Ottoman court. In Iran, toy shops sell a veiled doll called Sara. A Michigan-based company markets a veiled doll called Razanne, selling primarily to Muslims in the United States and Britain.



But none of those dolls have enjoyed anything approaching Fulla's wide popularity. Fawaz Abidin, the Fulla brand manager for NewBoy, said that was because NewBoy understood the Arab market in a way that its competitors had not.



"This isn't just about putting the hijab on a Barbie doll," Mr. Abidin said. "You have to create a character that parents and children will want to relate to. Our advertising is full of positive messages about Fulla's character. She's honest, loving, and caring, and she respects her father and mother."



Though Fulla will never have a boyfriend doll like Barbie's Ken, Mr. Abidin said, a Doctor Fulla and a Teacher Fulla will be introduced soon. "These are two respected careers for women that we would like to encourage small girls to follow," he said.



On the children's satellite channels popular in the Arab world, Fulla advertising is incessant. In a series of animated commercials, a sweetly high-pitched voice sings the Fulla song in Arabic ("She will soon be by my side, and I can tell her my deepest secrets") as a cartoon Fulla glides across the screen, saying her prayers as the sun rises, baking a cake to surprise her friend Yasmeen, or reading a book at bedtime - scenes that, Mr. Abidin said, are "designed to convey Fulla's values."



A series of commercials seems more familiarly sales-oriented, starring young Syrian actresses who present Fulla silverware, Fulla stationery, Fulla luggage and, of course, new accessories for Fulla herself. "When you take Fulla out of the house, don't forget her new spring abaya!" says one commercial.



In Damascus, a Fulla doll sells for about $16, in a country where average per capita income hovers around $100 per month. And yet, said Nawal al-Sayeedi, a clerk at the Space Toon toy store in the city's upscale Abou Roumaneh neighborhood, Fulla flies off the shelves.



When Iman Telmaz took her two young daughters back-to-school shopping recently, disaster struck. Ms. Telmaz had promised the girls, 10-year-old Alia and 5-year-old Aya, new pink Fulla backpacks for the start of the school year, and the stores were sold out.



Ms. Telmaz resolved to keep looking. "The children love their Fulla dolls," she said. "Aya is starting school for the first time, and has specially asked for a Fulla backpack. For these girls, it has to be Fulla."



Ms. Sayeedi, the toy store clerk, said she felt sorry for parents.



"If you've got a TV in the house, it's Fulla all the time," she said. "The parents complain about the expense. But Fulla gives girls a more Islamic character to emulate, and parents want that."



Not everyone sees Fulla as such a positive influence. Maan Abdul Salam, a Syrian women's rights advocate, said Fulla was emblematic of a trend toward Islamic conservatism sweeping the Middle East. Though statistics are hard to come by, he said, the percentage of young Arab women who wear the hijab is far higher now than it was a decade ago, and though many girls are wearing it by choice, others are being pressured to do so.



"If this doll had come out 10 years ago, I don't think it would have been very popular," he said. "Fulla is part of this great cultural shift."



"Syria used to be a very secular country," he added, "but when people don't have anything to believe in anymore, they turn toward religion."



Fatima Ghayeh, who at 15 is a few years past playing with dolls herself, said she felt "sad that no one plays with Barbie anymore." But, pressed for further explanation, Ms. Ghayeh, dressed in a white hijab and ankle-length khaki coat, appeared to change her mind.



"My friends and I loved Barbie more than anything," she said. "But maybe it's good that girls have Fulla now. If the girls put scarves on their dolls when they're young, it might make it easier when their time comes. Sometimes it is difficult for girls to put on the hijab. They feel it is the end of childhood." "Fulla shows girls that the hijab is a normal part of a woman's life," Ms. Ghayeh continued. She gestured behind her, at a pair of excited little girls examining a rack of Fulla-branded Frisbees and pool toys. "Now the girls only want Fulla."



But Jyza Sybai , a lanky, tomboyish Saudi 10-year-old, visiting Syria with her family for a short vacation, disagreed. "All my friends have Fulla now, but I still like Barbie the best," Jyza said. "She has blond hair and cool clothes. Every single girl in Saudi looks like Fulla, with the dark hair and the black scarf.



"What's so special about that?"

[Xeno]

What gives men the right to dictate to women what they should (or should not) wear?

Anyway, check the picture below. The one with the cleavage showing (on the left) is the Saudi King's neice Reema Durani. When people in Saudi, the hub of Islam, don't really care for dress code (which was actually set by Caliphs), why should we follow their Arabic tradition? Lets be Indians by culture and Christians, Hindus or Muslims by religion.

Adapting dress codes of other cultures within the Indian culture is a bad idea if it creates problems.

First of all I dont think its even important to question to authenitciy of the picture and the comments that follwed it..



Secondly coming to your point of adapting the dress code of "other cultures" ,I dont know what you mean by that, my question to you is why stop at only the dress code of "other cultures" ,lets go beyond that,that religion that you practice "Christianity" was also born in the Arab land (Jerusalem) and now has major follwoing in the west you are following a religion of "other cultures" ,why dont you convert to Hinduism which you are trying to euqate with "Indian Culture" I believe.. so my freind the problem is not what people are follwoign but how you view it , the shirt and trousers you wear is from other cultures, your name wilson , francis or whatever is from otehr culture , the language you use is from other culture(English) , every thing you are doing or following right now is 100 % from "another cultures" ,I didnt mean to be blunt but I had to say this just to make a point ..Its not just because your "other culture" thing is not the topic of the conversation doesnt mean you pass irresponsible comments on others..

[Xeno]

i only stepped in when xeno started getting abusive.

I had to get abusive only in retaliation , and if you feel like you are the one who is just then I think you should have stepped in when MM got abusive first .. the delay on your side to "STEP IN " only proves that you are not as just as you are trying to potray yourself...

[CtrlAltDel]

i only stepped in when xeno started getting abusive.

I had to get abusive only in retaliation , and if you feel like you are the one who is just then I think you should have stepped in when MM got abusive first .. the delay on your side to "STEP IN " only proves that you are not as just as you are trying to potray yourself...

he never got abusive first. u were pissed off when he started questioning certain quotes he came across. asking 'how', 'why' is called debate, not abuse....

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Know what the highest grade afghan opium can do to you?



I too have a dream - I

Last month a brother of ours had expressed his dream through Greater Kashmir. His dream of being an Indian and Kashmiri Muslim at once prompted me to pour out my heart too. Every one has a right to dream. People imagine good or bad, as everyone has a right to visualize whatever he or she likes because it does not cost and does not harm anyone so far they are within the confines of ones mind. But whenever dreams take any form whether words or actions they begin to show reaction. Newton’s law finds its application here “To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction”.
My fellow countrymen I too have a dream that one day my nation will succeed, it will overcome, and we will win. Here is a question that what I mean by my nation. It will mean different for different people. For some it is Kashmir only while for some it is Pakistan and for few others like my dreaming brother India. However my nation is something different from these visualizations. My nation encompasses the whole Islamic world from Africa to Europe, South East Asia to Arabia and Asia to Central Asia. My land “Kashmir” forms a special part of it. I visualize my land as a part of a bigger Islamic land or world. The nation constituted of Africa. Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Iran, Arab peninsula upto Palestine (including Jerusalem) Pakistan, Tajkistan etc. as one world of mine. The today’s sovereign Muslim states (though not sovereign in real sense but slave states) as its provinces. It must be such that if I start sojourn from Srinagar no one will stop me to travel to any place in my ideal Islamic world. I need no travel documents and no police will check me to traverse any part of it whether be it Grozny or West Bank or Srinagar or Christina. I dream of a single government to rule the whole world headed by one Caliph who will have no palace to sleep except an ordinary and modest place under the sky. A great man like Hazrat Umar who will be accessible to all without any guards or darbans in between. Accessible more to farmers, laborers and poor people than to riches. There will be rule of law, no one will have right to harm or kill anyone. Everyone’s life will be protected as ordained in the book of Allah.
My nation will have a national capital situated in our beloved land of Hijaz where our Caliph and his associates will guide and serve the whole ummah. Besides it will have three sub-capitals one each at Jerusalem, Kaulalampur and Islamabad where we will have headquarters of our Aerial, Naval and Armed forces respectively. In addition there will be provincial capitals where provincial Amirs will run day to day affairs of our people. The Caliph and these Amirs will serve the Ummah as per the spirit of Qur’an and will be appointed only by the national/provincial shura which will consist of Ulema (highly god fearing learned men in both fields of Islam and technology with a practical background).
My land will have a national language, the language of Qur’an - Arabic, in which we will be taught all sciences whether Islamic or technological sciences. Besides, Arabic as a national language, people of my Islamic world will have their native language as additional language. I dream when Maulana Romi and Shiekh Saadi will replace Shakespere and John Milton. I dream when Baghdad, Bukhara, Samarkand, Ankara, Tehran, Kosovo, Islamabad, Dubia, Mecca, Medina, Tashkent, Groznyy, Kaulalampur, Jakarta, Khartoum, Jerusalem, Damascus, Qahira, Srinagar etc will have Universities of international standard and no student from any corner of my dream Islamic world will have any difficulty in getting admissions and studying his/her stream of like at any of these institutions at minimum cost with specially concession to economically downtrodden. I wait when these centres will replace London, Newyork, Berlin etc. I dream when our lands will again give birth to the people like Imam Bukhari, Razi, Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd, Ibn Hazm, Ibn Khaldoon, Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Nafis, Allama Iqbal from whose works the rest of world will again learn. I dream that when mothers like Hazrat Fatima RA, Hazrat Aisha RA, Hazrat Khadija RA, Hazrat Umm Salma RA and Rabia Basri will be there. Above all I believe and hope that once again Hussain RA, Hassan RA, Khalid RA, Zubair RA and make people show that Islam neither stands for head counted democracy nor Shiekhdom of Arabia.
My Islamic land will have big centres of learning where besides Islamic sciences latest technology will be taught leaving out the current western teachings. It will do away with that mad pursuit of technology that plays havoc with the moral and cultural upbringing of our children. Here I may point out Qur’an must have central focus in Islamic Sciences besides Prophet’s (SAW) sunnah which were mainly responsible before to help my people to be at the top of the world.

My Islamic land will have big centres of learning where besides Islamic sciences latest technology will be taught leaving out the current western teachings. It will do away with that mad pursuit of technology that plays havoc with the moral and cultural upbringing of our children. Here I may point out Qur’an must have central focus in Islamic Sciences besides Prophet’s (SAW) sunnah which were mainly responsible before to help my people to be at the top of the world.

My nation’s economy will be interest free economy so that no rich could exploit our poor. The money will keep circulating and will not remain stationed with the rich people only. Very Happy Zakat system will be a corner stone of our national economic edifice. Paying of Zakat will be strictly taken care of. It will be ensured that the Zakat collected will be distributed to the deserving people so that a time will come no one in our world will remain poor and we will have no people who will receive Zakat. Due care will be taken that every family will have sufficient for livelihood. My government will take care of every home and family so that none of our womenfolk will feel need to earn due to poverty.

I dream that our lands will be better utilized by our people. Only those people will be allowed to keep big farms who will be able to cultivate it and not to misuse it for their luxuries. Our Agriculture scientists will go to our farmers to their lands to teach them about the newer techniques, better seeds and ways of farming so that our yields will be such that we would require nothing from the rest of world not a single grain so that they could not exploit us. As my ideal nation is big and comprises almost half the world, Very Happy we could get items from one province to other as such will not depend on any one.

My nation will have big industries Very Happy (of which it is devoid except few) where mass production of the things will take place which will cater daily needs of our people besides exports. Industrial plants where our crude oil will be cleaned without anyone’s support. Besides traditional power plants we will have nuclear power plants to render the needs of our people. We will have units where we could manufacture arms and ammunition for our forces. Plants where we could manufacture ships, aircrafts and land vehicles for the people and armed forces of our nation.

I dream my world to be so powerful that no one could dare to eye upon it. So powerful that no one could frighten us by tell us “either with us or them”. Very Happy My nation will be an atomic super power with latest long range ballistic missiles, aerial fleets, sub marines. It will have a big brave Air force, Navy and Army guided with spirit of jehad. So potent, that no could have guts to colonize us on one pretext and other. No one would have courage to kill our youth in our own lands. Just I am pouring out my dream, my ears are hearing the gun shots coming from the vicinity, I know some of my brother will be there target of colonial forces. ROTFL In my dream world these colonizers will not dare to touch our soil not to talk about killing our own people especially our youth in the heart of our cities. I dream when no one in this universe will try to throw us out of our houses. So mighty will be my nation that no one will even think of making the lives of our womenfolk miserable. Our womenfolk will be happy again as they will have full faith that their young sons, husbands and brothers are safe and will return back in evenings to them. Nothing will be there to make them weep. Their eyes beaming with joy and devoid of tears of sorrow. They will have people like Tariq bin Ziyad, Mosa bin Nasir, Muhammed bin Qasim, Auranzeb, Mehmood Gazni like people to protect and defend from enemies of Islam. They will have no fear except to care for their houses and children and live a happy Islamic life. I dream of a nation where no one will point finger on my beard. No one will question my sister’s Purdah. No one will have fear of wearing khan dress.

The dream which I visualize is not only my dream but of millions of my people on this earth. My dream is the result of an inspiration which I get from my great beloved Prophet (SAW). The dream about which Allama Iqbal (RA) has said “Chino Arab hamara hindustan hamara - muslim hain hum watan hai sara jahan hamara”. Let no one feel that this dream is impossible to realise. Believe me we have been dreaming it the last 1300 years and particularly from the start of twentieth century when my nation was set apart.

Link

[CtrlAltDel]

^^^^^ ROTFLMAO ^^^^^^







too much opium i'd say!

[lonewolf]

^^^^^ ROTFLMAO ^^^^^^



too much opium i'd say!

People like that don't need opium to have dreams. They dream naturally, using freely available oxygen.

[CtrlAltDel]

^^^^^ ROTFLMAO ^^^^^^



too much opium i'd say!

People like that don't need opium to have dreams. They dream naturally, using freely available oxygen.

yup! i read somewhere that too much oxygen also make ppl hallucinate...

[lonewolf]

^^^^^ ROTFLMAO ^^^^^^



too much opium i'd say!

People like that don't need opium to have dreams. They dream naturally, using freely available oxygen.

yup! i read somewhere that too much oxygen also make ppl hallucinate...

Not hallucinate so much

[paris_dakar]

PEEPS!



I was reading the article posted by DQ on page '6'. It had its good points but cliched. We all know what the F happened but the real issues I have with the west is the usurption of the higher ground. I would like to speak at length regarding that but I gotta run.



The issue of Sania's dress might be frivolous to most of us on the boards...ok..to me, but its a burning question of change. At some point of time in the past 400 years women in India (only hindu? was the burqa in vogue then?) were made to cover up. Look at the sculptures, they tell a different story, of much freer times. If i was me, then I would've been walking around with a perm hard on and very trigger happy! Missed it...Anyway, before i digress...tennis skirts have gotten shorter and the shorts are coloful panties. What titillates most men the most ..the sexiness of the outfit or the nakedness? I get more excited seeing a woman in askimpy skirt rather than whoopee!

Did I just start another topic?



While I am here I should also touch upon somethings...there is such a thing called inertia..so the lag on part of muslim groups in supporting Sania could be due to a variety of reasons....i like it when people cuss out...adds that bit of humor for me. I see that the GREAT WAR is still ragin between CAD, DQ, MM and XENO. let me read through these posts and i'll add to the war of words!!!



Peace out.

[CtrlAltDel]

Look at the sculptures, they tell a different story, of much freer times. If i was me, then I would've been walking around with a perm hard on and very trigger happy!

i dont think so...IMO, if no one minded skimpy clothes, everyone wud get used to it and after a point wont mind at all. do men walk aroud with permanent hard-ons in countries where women wear skimpy clothes? its all in the mind.

I see that the GREAT WAR is still ragin between CAD, DQ....

i prefer the term GREAT DEBATE we have nothing against each other personally, so its not a "war".

[paris_dakar]

you don't think so...me and my american buddies still can't keep the snake under control whenever a member of the opposite gender walks around in a mini...but a naked one...the rseponse is...eh, seen it...maybe a quark of an excitement and its gone...but wel keep ogling nevertheless! A girl in a mini or tank or a combination of these types opens my mind tot he possibilites...



Question for you...which do you find more sexy...a woman in a mini or a butt naked angel? Assume the circumstances are similar...



Maybe I am of a kind...



Oh it is war, a war of words and war is usually business...if its personal then its called crime.

[CtrlAltDel]

Question for you...which do you find more sexy...a woman in a mini or a butt naked angel?

of corz half clad is always sexier... anyone wud tell u that!

[Mayavi Morpheus]

I was reading the article posted by DQ on page '6'.

Peace out.

Like this you mean?

Australia, Canada, New Zealand, America, Caribbean, South Africa, Zimbabwe etc where they have not integrated, they have refused to learn the language despite living their for years, refused to accept the desirability of the indigenous peoples culture and practises, and have instead used violence and extremism, preached hate for their neighbour, totally destroyed "their way of life," and abused their hosts hospitality.

If so, just ask him if he and his ilk are ready to be deported from Iran, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia and every other present day muslim country where they have neither integrated nor learnt the local language, customs or values?

[paris_dakar]

nope, not that one MM...It was the one singing paens of past glory and a few other things...I didn't read the one you were pointing out.



I learn history not to settle scores...but to feel connected, to learn and to get ahead with the society that I implicitly signed up for. Now if somebody thinks otherwise..what can I say?