Kufr-Kafir

[Xeno]

Should I say you have displayed your mullah/fundmanetalist/terrorrist attitude?

No not at all its you getting carried away because of your disease of Obsessive Compulsive disorder

Because there are references in quran which have been interpreted in a way to justify attrocities agianst non-muslims or Kufrs. There are many instance throughout the history and the latest one is the discrimination against Ahmadiya's in pakistan.

You fu** live in India and talk about pakistan,anyways yes Ahmadiyyas are kafirs becuase they do not believe in Allah and the messenger in a way muslims are supposed to believe,so as it was generally agreed they were Kafirs as any other non muslims which is a technical term and nothig else..

Honestly, doesnt quran call for murder and annihilation? Whatever be the context, whethere to defend islam or mecca, whatever the case may be. Every verse I quoted in this thread is about murder. Is it not?

Yes it does at some places it tells you what to do when you get attacked by the enemy it says defend yourself die protecting your honuour if need be ,thats the part you cleverly tried to omit same old RSS strategy to misguide people ,which even a child can now discern ,it doesnt say SATI( burn your women alive ..) when you are attacked by th enemy and whine for the rest of the life on FHDB,its a very practical advice ...

It also says that who ever kills a innocent, (now dont try to ask me whats the meaning fo innocent goto http://www.m-w.com )its as if he has killed the whole humanity..

And that doesnt stop you from quoting single verses. islam is a religion of peace. almighty allah is oft mercifull and forgiving. Are you quoting them in context? Do I have to quote entire quran when all I want to point out is one verse? Did you ever bother to explain the context in which those were quoted, NO. All you did was quote another single verse (so much for quoting entire chapter) or slander me.

Yes the context is very important if a verse came down during the time of war and quote it without saying anything about the context you are being a slanderer..

but how will I know that some one like you who beleives every word of quran dont mean any harm to me?

Rest assured every believer will not harm you unless you harm him and thats in Quran...We believe every word is from god and we dont believe that our religion is "EVOLVING" like you said earlier in your posts that your religion changes with every new "BOLLYWOOD" movie liek "Kadwa Chauth" the fasting for the husbands concept that started in hindu society after the movie " Hum aapke hain kaun" and also the Cadbury ad also had a major impact which had the same "Kadwa chauth " concept..if you believe in something that you needs to be evolved (I mean get influenced by BOLLYWOOD movies) then you are being an atheist you are basically denying the fact that god exits and he has chosen a way of life for you ,you are doing what god is supposed to do, defining you rown religion , and thats another topic for another day..

What Indo-pak?

Looks like thats what gives you pain in the assv

[Mayavi Morpheus]

You fu** live in India and talk about pakistan,anyways yes Ahmadiyyas are kafirs becuase they do not believe in Allah and the messenger in a way muslims are supposed to believe,so as it was generally agreed they were Kafirs as any other non muslims which is a technical term and nothig else..

Thankyou for vindicating my position.
The Joys of being 'Kafir'.

Sect offices closed in Pakistan
Protesters in Bogra, Bangladesh
Protesters have also targeted Qadianis in Bangladesh
Pakistani authorities have closed down the offices of 16 publications run by followers of the Qadiani sect in the central Punjab city of Jhang.

Two printing presses were sealed and cases registered against editors and publishers for "propagation of offensive material", police said.

**offensive = anything agaisnt sunni beliefs**

At least two people were arrested and raids are continuing.

Qadianis, also known as the Ahmadiyya, were declared non-Muslims under the constitution in 1974.

The sect was founded by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam, who was born in the town of Qadian in Punjab in 1835.

The Qadianis believe he was the Imam Mahdi, or the Promised Messiah.

Complaint

Jhang police chief, Hamid Mukhtar Gondal, told the BBC the action had been taken on orders of the Punjab home department.


We have in fact always been victims of prejudice
Spokesman,
Jamaat-e-Ahmadiyya

He said the 16 publications had already been banned but the Jamaat-e-Ahmadiya - Pakistan's largest Qadiani party - had continued to print and distribute them.

Literature deemed religiously offensive and banned under Pakistani law was recovered from the offices of some of the publications.

The latest action was triggered on a complaint by a local religious leader, Maulana Chinioti, who has been in the forefront of the campaign against the minority sect.

Mr Gondal said he could have charged Qadiani leaders and editors under anti-terrorism laws but had decided not to do so.

"For the time being, we have booked them for propagating material offensive to people of other faiths," he said.

A spokesman of the Jamaat-e-Ahmadiyya told the BBC that none of its publications were offensive and their closure reflected religious prejudice against the community.

The Jamaat-e-Ahmadiya had never been involved in any form of violence or any hate campaign, he said.

"We have in fact always been victims of prejudice," he said.

Mainstream Islam believes Mohammad was the last Prophet.

Yes it does at some places it tells you what to do when you get attacked by the enemy it says defend yourself die protecting your honuour if need be ,thats the part you cleverly tried to omit same old RSS

So it is ok to kill to defend Islam. Right? Isnt that what I posted?

I will ignore the rest of your silly swipes.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

More joy in store for the kafirs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3985785.stm

It says some Islamic groups have threatened to step up attacks on Ahmadi places of worship.

The Ahmadis, who number 100,000 in Bangladesh, do not believe Mohammed was necessarily the last prophet.

The group said 11 Ahmadis were seriously hurt in an attack in Brahmanbaria, 75km (47 miles) north-east of Dhaka, last Friday and that Islamist groups had threatened to carry out attacks more frequently.

What is the basis of these attacks? Is it a simple conflict on faiths or are the sunni muslims finding justification in quran?

[Xeno]

[quote="Mayavi Morpheus

Yes it does at some places it tells you what to do when you get attacked by the enemy it says defend yourself die protecting your honuour if need be ,thats the part you cleverly tried to omit same old RSS

So it is ok to kill to defend Islam. Right? Isnt that what I posted?
I will ignore the rest of your silly swipes.[/quote]



Read again you moron ,I said it syas defenbd yourself when attacked..read again ..

[Xeno]

Yes it does at some places it tells you what to do when you get attacked by the enemy it says defend yourself die protecting your honuour if need be ,thats the part you cleverly tried to omit same old RSS startegy that you stick to

So it is ok to kill to defend Islam. Right? Isnt that what I posted?
I will ignore the rest of your silly swipes.

Read again moron I said it says defend yourself when attacked by the enemy ..

[Xeno]

The Ahmadis, who number 100,000 in Bangladesh, do not believe prophet Mohammed(PBUH) was necessarily the last prophet.

Islamist groups had threatened to carry out attacks more frequently.

What is the basis of these attacks? Is it a simple conflict on faiths or are th sunni muslims finding justification in quran?[/quote]



I dont know you gotta ask the bengalis ,might be they have some property disputes with each other who knows...

[Mayavi Morpheus]

[Read again moron I said it says defend yourself when attacked by the enemy ..

How do you defend? by running away?

[Xeno]

[Read again moron I said it says defend yourself when attacked by the enemy ..

How do you defend? by running away?

Depends on the kind of attack you moron ...

[DQ]

[Read again moron I said it says defend yourself when attacked by the enemy ..

How do you defend? by running away?

What do you suggest all SATI

[DQ]

Ponder.....



[quote]



To the believers they declare belief and, in secret to their own devils, they say, "We were only mocking" (2:14).



God mocks them and gives them time to continue blindly in their transgressions (2:15).



They have traded guidance for error, but their bargain has had no profit and they have missed the true guidance (2:16).



(Their case) is like that of one who kindles a fire and when it grows bright God takes away its light leaving him in darkness (wherein) he cannot see (anything) (2:17).



They are deaf, blind, and dumb and cannot regain their senses(2:18).



Or it is like that of a rain storm with darkness, thunder, and lightning approaching. They cover their ears for fear of thunder and death. God encompasses those who deny His words (2:19).

[DQ]

Ponder.....

To the believers they declare belief and, in secret to their own devils, they say, "We were only mocking" (2:14).

God mocks them and gives them time to continue blindly in their transgressions (2:15).

They have traded guidance for error, but their bargain has had no profit and they have missed the true guidance (2:16).

(Their case) is like that of one who kindles a fire and when it grows bright God takes away its light leaving him in darkness (wherein) he cannot see (anything) (2:17).

They are deaf, blind, and dumb and cannot regain their senses(2:18).

Or it is like that of a rain storm with darkness, thunder, and lightning approaching. They cover their ears for fear of thunder and death. God encompasses those who deny His words (2:19).

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Depends on the kind of attack you moron ...

go on, tell me the extreme action sanctioned under quran..

What do you suggest all SATI

naaah, I have other suggestion, but I am neither allah nor his messenger. I just want to know what the quran suggests. What non-violent methods did you find in quran which I couldnt find when I flipped through the book.

[Xeno]

Depends on the kind of attack you moron ...

go on, tell me the extreme action sanctioned under quran..

What do you suggest all SATI

naaah, I have other suggestion, but I am neither allah nor his messenger. I just want to know what the quran suggests. What non-violent methods did you find in quran which I couldnt find when I flipped through the book.

Hmm...Non violent when some one is hanging a sword on your neck ,may be Gita or any religious book you believe in(like if there is any standard..) tells you to catch his feet and beg for your life and SATI your women alive in fire...Quran says defend your honour ,because a life or death of dignity is better than life saved after pleading for life ...

[DQ]

naaah, I have other suggestion, but I am neither allah nor his messenger. I just want to know what the quran suggests. ook.

How could I ever doubt it, your quote.

ok, I am a liar

And on explaining you few more quotes to Ponder

Do you, the believers in truth, desire the unbelievers to believe you? There was a group among them who would hear the word of God and understand it. Then they would purposely misinterpret it (2:75).

Do they not know that God knows whatever they conceal or reveal? (2:77) Some of them are illiterate and have no knowledge of the Book except for what they know from legends and fantasy. They are only relying on conjecture. (2:78)

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Hmm...Non violent when some one is hanging a sword on your neck ,may be Gita or any religious book you believe in(like if there is quran does or does not support violence?any standard..) tells you to catch his feet and beg for your life and SATI your women alive in fire...Quran says defend your honour ,because a life or death of dignity is better than life saved after pleading for life ...

I think we are running in circles here. First you said quran doesnt teach violence under any circumstances. Now you are saying that there is no non-violent method to defend yourself when attacked. I am confused. What exactly does quran say in this regard?

[Xeno]

Hmm...Non violent when some one is hanging a sword on your neck ,may be Gita or any religious book you believe in(like if there is quran does or does not support violence?any standard..) tells you to catch his feet and beg for your life and SATI your women alive in fire...Quran says defend your honour ,because a life or death of dignity is better than life saved after pleading for life ...

I think we are running in circles here. First you said quran doesnt teach violence under any circumstances. Now you are saying that there is no non-violent method to defend yourself when attacked. I am confused. What exactly does quran say in this regard?

It says defend yourself ....

[Mayavi Morpheus]

It says defend yourself ....

through violence?



I see whats going on here... you guys are trying to avoid the use of the term 'violence'.... hahahaa...

[DQ]

Attributes of a Kafir and People responsible for Violence.

We made a covenant with you that you should not shed each other's blood or expel each other from your homeland. You accepted and bore witness to this covenant, (2:84) yet you murdered each other and forced a number of your people out of their homeland, helping each other to commit sin and to be hostile to one another. When you had expelled people from their homeland and later they had been made captives (of other people), you then paid their ransom (thinking that it was a righteous deed).

God forbade you to expel these people in the first place. Do you believe in one part of the Book and not in the other? Those who behave in this way shall reap disgrace in this world and severe punishment on the Day of Resurrection. God is not unaware of things that you do (2:85).
They have traded the life hereafter in exchange for their worldly life. Their punishment will not be eased nor will they receive help. (2:86)

[Xeno]

It says defend yourself ....

through violence?

I see whats going on here... you guys are trying to avoid the use of the term 'violence'.... hahahaa...

If that thought makes you happy, I said that it says defend yourself if you are attacked by your enemy....

[DQ]

Attributes of "Kafir" the denier the non believer responsible for Violence.

We made a covenant with you that you should not shed each other's blood or expel each other from your homeland. You accepted and bore witness to this covenant, (2:84) yet you murdered each other and forced a number of your people out of their homeland, helping each other to commit sin and to be hostile to one another. When you had expelled people from their homeland and later they had been made captives (of other people), you then paid their ransom (thinking that it was a righteous deed).

God forbade you to expel these people in the first place. Do you believe in one part of the Book and not in the other? Those who behave in this way shall reap disgrace in this world and severe punishment on the Day of Resurrection. God is not unaware of things that you do (2:85).
They have traded the life hereafter in exchange for their worldly life. Their punishment will not be eased nor will they receive help. (2:86)

[/quote]

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Attributes of "Kafir" the denier the non believer responsible for Violence.

Voilence against muslims or against themselves? That verse is not clear to me, care to explain? And what is its relevance here?

[Mayavi Morpheus]

If that thought makes you happy, I said that it says defend yourself if you are attacked by your enemy....

Some people say that attack is the best form of defence. So do you attack in order to defend yourself?

And what do u mean by "if attacked by enemy"? What constitutes an attack? A physical attack, a verbal attack, a 'moral' attack?

[DQ]

Attributes of "Kafir" the denier the non believer responsible for Violence.

Voilence against muslims or against themselves? That verse is not clear to me, care to explain? And what is its relevance here?

As aptly said by "Xeno" Read again "you Moron".



Its to the person who denys and breaks the covenant, he is the one who has waged war and shed blood occupied lands, read read.



More of what they do, (The kafirs)



[quote]

Who is more unjust than those who strive to destroy the mosques and prevent others from commemorating the Name of God therein who could not enter the mosques except with fear. They, (the unjust ones), will be disgraced in this life and will receive great torment in the life hereafter. (2:114)

[Xeno]

If that thought makes you happy, I said that it says defend yourself if you are attacked by your enemy....

Some people say that attack is the best form of defence. So do you attack in order to defend yourself?
And what do u mean by "if attacked by enemy"? What constitutes an attack? A physical attack, a verbal attack, a 'moral' attack?

An attck is one that endangers the life of inncoents ,children ,woman..

[Mayavi Morpheus]

More of what they do, (The kafirs)

all 'kafirs' eh?