Hinduism for n00bs

[Lucifer]

Since this is primarily a thread to understand Hinduism, I shall pose a question that I had previously posted a few months ago on these boards.



What does Hinduism have to say about the origin of the species? Does it say where we have all originated from or are the scriptures mum on this subject? From whatever I have read (it is not much, but still quite considerable), I have not been able to figure out the answer to this one question.



Can anyone help?

[Mayavi Morpheus]

I haven't read any hindu scriptures so far but I have just started readin Bhagavad Gita thanks to jquader. From what I have seen in movies mankind, according to hinduism, is as old as god. First there was nothing and then there was a man and god - Nar, Narayan.

Remember that Narayana is considered God, while the supreme power is Shakti, to which even Narayana prays.

[Portuguese Man-Of-War]

Since this is primarily a thread to understand Hinduism, I shall pose a question that I had previously posted a few months ago on these boards.

What does Hinduism have to say about the origin of the species? Does it say where we have all originated from or are the scriptures mum on this subject? From whatever I have read (it is not much, but still quite considerable), I have not been able to figure out the answer to this one question.

Can anyone help?

From a post here:



Some more interesting figures:



1. The kruta yuga has 17,28,000 years.

2. The tretha yuga has 12,96,000 years.

3. The dwapara yuga has 8,64,000 years.

4. The kali yuga has 4,32,000 years.



(The mathematicians will note the relationships between the above figures.)



5. 4 yugas put together (43,20,000 years) form a Manvantara. 14 Manvataras form one day for Lord Brahma. This is the 7th Manvantara in Brahma's current day, and we are some 5000+ years into the Kali yuga.

6. At the end of every Manavatara, the entire universe disappears into Lord Vishnu's womb (including Lord Brahma and, I think, even Lord Shiva - the latter I just culled out from my logic, though it's a little difficult to fathom), and then He goes into a Yoga Nidra. Then it's, well, tomorrow , and Lord Brahma is again born off the navel of Lord Vishnu. Lord Brahma then does penance for 1,000 years before He starts creation. Lord Shiva is apparently born out of Lord Brahma as part of this.



Doubts I will never get cleared:



1. Why all this

2. So the Ramayana, Lord Rama, Lord Krishna, all other tales in Hindu mythology that we have read, all happened in this Manvantara, in the earlier yugas. So what happened in the previous Manvantara? What happened when it was yesterday for Lord Brahma? Aren't the possibilities simply unimaginable? Was there mankind in the earlier Manvantara? Are we the special attraction just for this Manvantara?



Most of this info is not original (like it can be! ). It's almost all come out of Kamala Subramaniam's Srimad Bhagavatham (Rs. 500, hardbound, most big bookstores, a Bhavan's publication).

[CtrlAltDel]

AFAIK and heard, in hindu mythology the Formless One (Brahman/Shakti) created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and they in turn created the rest of the Gods and earthly living things (incl. humans). this is all i know.

i wish someone who has read the scriptures fully says something here.

[DQ]

Is this out of Vedic Scriptures or just again the bugged translation.



Waht about Womens rights its week two and still no resource of the Vedic Hinduism.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Define womens rights DQ.

If I remember right, you rubbished modern women rights as a capitalist conspiracy to get cheap labor force (Islam and women thread). You claimed that a women having to cover herself completely is her gods given right, something which hinduism doesn't prescribe. So if you can define what women's rights are, then may be someone will answer.



For a start lemme tell you, the 'bugged' version as you like to call it* or the vedic hinduism does not prohibit today's women from doing anything they want to do. Isn't that what women's right's are all about?



*: This is so typical of you to heap veiled insults on other religions and then claim that you do not insult anyone. Quran doe not talk about sunni or shia sects, but the fact is there are two sects, is Islam bugged?

[parinda]

For a start lemme tell you, the 'bugged' version as you like to call it* or the vedic hinduism does not prohibit today's women from doing anything they want to do. Isn't that what women's right's are all about?

Quote is what people are expecting here , you have said that you havent read vedas how can one believe you that you are not saying this out of your fundamentalist hindutva tendencies, yes it is bugged becuase in Mahabharata Bheeshm said ffed beef to brahmins and today Beef is considered not allowed in Hinduism...all these new rules in Hinduism were invented to convert it into Hindutva which is a methodology to supress the lower castes in Hinduism ...

Quran does not talk about sunni or shia sects, but the fact is there are two sects, is Islam bugged?

This is not the answer to the question about Woman rights in Vedas etc..is this the best you can come up with ...anywayz for your information ,Muslims also follow the Hadith(sayings of the prophet (PBUH)) apart from the Holy Quran ,and one Hadith says that there will be 73 sects in Islam and Shia and sunni are one of them , so you see its not bugged its juts plain truth...



Now its my turn to start the mudslinging I guess , birth of ganesha ,birth of Brahmans etc ..but you know there is no comparision between your belief and mine so I cant even think about responding in that way becuase by doing so I ll be equating my belief with yours (Hardcore fundamentalist Hinduism aka Hindutva)which I dont want to...

[DQ]

Define womens rights DQ.
If I remember right, you rubbished modern women rights as a capitalist conspiracy to get cheap labor force (Islam and women thread). You claimed that a women having to cover herself completely is her gods given right, something which hinduism doesn't prescribe. So if you can define what women's rights are, then may be someone will answer.

For a start lemme tell you, the 'bugged' version as you like to call it* or the vedic hinduism does not prohibit today's women from doing anything they want to do. Isn't that what women's right's are all about?

*: This is so typical of you to heap veiled insults on other religions and then claim that you do not insult anyone. Quran doe not talk about sunni or shia sects, but the fact is there are two sects, is Islam bugged?

No point in trying to sway the discussion buddy.



Hinduism for N00bs is being discussed lets discuss this.



"Walling off" "Veiled Insults" are all your bajafied presumptions.



Way back I had suggested to pin this up, lest some prick down the line comes up blaming me of veiling insults, this was accepted by some one who had taken up to expalin vedic Hinduism.



For your reference Quote



"Yes. Unfortunately, this bugged version is the socially more acceptable form of hinduism. "

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Yes, I know one Abdul Jihad said justifying terrorrism "Islam is a peaceful religion, but it is only peaceful when everyone in the world is a muslim". So keep the others said statements to those others.



On topic: To get an answer to your question, you need to define the scope of your question first. What do you consider as a Womens Right? Once you define that, I am sure someone will answer the queries.



I cannot answer your questions because I haven't read vedas or upanishads. But I know this much, there is no Good Hindu or Bad Hindu, there is only karma. So the question of rights does not arise in Hinduism. The reason I compared it with Islam is because unlike Islam, Hinduism does not lay a set of guidlines for the faithful to follow.

[parinda]

On topic: To get an answer to your question, you need to define the scope of your question first. What do you consider as a Womens Right?

Isnt the scope obvious , I think the question was womens right with in the scope of Vedas..

Hinduism does not lay a set of guidlines for the faithful to follow.

Whats gets you and your other hardline fundamentalist Hindutva and not Hinduism following Hindus object to beef eating ...it is not a matter of concern for me but as a matter of principle why should you object to some one doing something like in this instance Muslims ,Christinas and Sikhs eating beef..if the vedas say that you should infact eat beef... I guess one fine day you and your Hindu fundamentalist ilk including RSS VHP etc decided lets come up with something for confrontation...

[WTF HP]

I somehow don't see any reason why paki agents like DQ and parinda should keep browbeating on their points on this discussion. I've quoted the following pointers from Indian history that show the status enjoyed by women in ancient times.

1. Fa Hien and Huein Tsang's chronicles state categorically that there was no distinction made on the basis of students' gender at Nalanda, the premier seat of learning in ancient India.

2. Customs like Swayamwar (a woman getting the choice to select her groom) were in vogue. This is completely against the present day belief of parents being the best judges of a woman's prospects.

3. Women rulers were quite common. Examples stretch right from the days of the Maurya dynasty to the modern Rani Lakshmibai and Kittoor Chennamma.

4. Panini (the father of sanskrit grammar) makes a clear distinction between acharya (masculine) and acharyani (feminine) as well as upadhyaya (masculine) and upadhyayini (feminine). There are chronicled evidences of women accepting the sacred thread and pursuing knowledge as their life's aim.

5. The Rig-Veda mentions a total of 400+ sages. Noteworthy is the fact that 21 of them are women.

6. The fact that all rivers are considered divine among hindus and all rivers having feminine names shows that women were revered in ancient times.

Now, as I've mentioned earlier too, the vedas are not a rule-book unlike the Quran. So they don't dwelve on do's and don'ts. In this light, its impossible to quote verses from the vedas to prove the point. However, you don't even find anything derogatory vis-a-vis the status of women in the vedas or the gita. I'm quoting the Wikipedia entry on women's status in hinduism as I consider it a very neutral source. Something that the paki agents won't be able to call a modiised baja.

In the dharmashastras the study of the Vedas was regarded as a religious duty of the three upper varnas (Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas). Women and Shudras were neither required nor allowed to study the Veda (this came to happen only in the very Later Vedic or the Sutra Age, because numerous evidences suggest that all humans were equally allowed to study the Vedas, and many Vedic "authors" were women). Elaborate methods for preserving the text (by learning them by heart and not by writing), subsidiary disciplines (Vedanga), exegetical literature, etc., were developed in the Vedic schools. In the fourteenth century Sayana wrote famous commentaries on the Vedic texts.

In modern times, Vedic studies are crucial in the understanding of Indo-European linguistics, as well as ancient Indian history.

It may be interesting to note that Hinduism encourages the Vedic mantras to be interpreted as liberally and as philosophically as possible unlike the Abrahamic religions (concerning the Tanakh, the Bible and the Koran). In fact, too literal interpretation of the mantras is actually discouraged, and even the three layers of commentaries (Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanishads), which form an intergral part of the shruti literature, actually interpret the seemingly polytheistic, ritualistic and highly complex Samhitas in a philosophical and metaphorical way to explain the "hidden" concepts of God (Ishwara), the Supreme Being (Brahman) and the soul or the self (Atman). Also, many Hindus believe that the very sound of the Vedic mantras is purifying for the environment and human mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas



I guess DQ and parinda should quit crapping on this issue and we should rather discuss the cosmology subject started by Lucifer.

[Maggot]

Now, as I've mentioned earlier too, the vedas are not a rule-book unlike the Quran.

Bahahhahahahhhhha kekekkeke



Did he just negate his own sentence? (or is the joke now on me? ) Was that a freudian slip, WTF, o master of retarded nicks?



oooooooo most definitely

[Amused HP]

Was that a freudian slip, WTF, o master of retarded nicks?

Look who's talking!!

[DQ]

WTF. Exactly.





Women rulers were common

Women pursuing knowledge

Of 400 + Sages 21 Women

No Distinction in education



Are practices of various times, but that still does not conclusively prove about women rights through Vedic Hinduism.



Your points

1. Most of the adherents today follow a bugged version, in other terma are bugged

2. Vedic scriptures are no rule book and open to interpretation in a "philosophical and metaphorical" way.



So does this prove that given no rules for interpretation, the Vedic scriptures can be interpreted in a "bugged way".



Resulting in a complete break down of the social structure and untold miseries for "Castes" of people and "Gender" of people.



Just by listening is soothing, aha. A philosophical thought tells that life is not music, not to just listen and sooth but to comprehend and act upon. Now that you prefer to quote wikipedia, which for your information is not a conclusive source of information, but again as you prefer to live by it.



Here is waht it talks about one such metaphorical interpratation. - Devadasi



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devadasi



Devadasi (in Sanskrit "servant of god") is a religious practice still found in some Hindu communities, especially in southern India, whereby at young girls are "married" to a deity or a temple.



A Devadasi will usually acquire a "patron" after her deflowering ceremony. "Patronship in a majority of cases is achieved at the time of the dedication ceremony itself. The patron who secures this right of spending the first night with the girl may maintain a permanent liaison with the girl by paying a fixed sum of money or he can maintain the relationship for a fixed period of time on payment or he can simply terminate the liaison after the deflowering ceremony. A permanent liaison with a patron does not bar the girl from entertaining other clients, unless he specifies otherwise. In case the girl entertains, other men have to leave the girl’s house when her patron comes.



Lets talk about other rights as they come. Can you look up the scriptures and interpretate and tell me if this is an acceptable right of a women. (for your information history records girls as young as 3-4 to have become Devdasis.)

[Pacified HP]

WTF. Exactly.


Women rulers were common
Women pursuing knowledge
Of 400 + Sages 21 Women
No Distinction in education

Are practices of various times, but that still does not conclusively prove about women rights through Vedic Hinduism.


Resulting in a complete break down of the social structure and untold miseries for "Castes" of people and "Gender" of people.

You probably need to put in that extra effort to read and comprehend what I write instead of just skimming through some self-percieved keywords in my posts. I've given you instances that show that women's rights have not been trampled upon in the name of religion across the board. There have, however, been instances where social evils have crept up into the system and have, over a period of time, taken strong root within the system.

When I talk about the bugged version, I'm being quite honest in accepting that a majority of today's purported followers of hinduism are following a version passed on to them by a fuedal and patriarchial society without any logic and reason; something they are supposed to do. Having accepted that, I repeat something else I have been saying with that statement each time. If a section of a community is doing something, that in no way reflects on the community as a whole. Hinduism has always had a good number of progressive thinkers who have done their best at their levels to rid the society of these evils. These customs that you talk about are more of social customs rather than religious ones and mixing up the domain of these social evils with that of religion will do nothing but create more confusion and flare things up. Its something like attributing the rise and fall of the Indian economy to the change in form of its cricket team. Just not the right way of relating things.

Your points
1. Most of the adherents today follow a bugged version, in other terma are bugged
2. Vedic scriptures are no rule book and open to interpretation in a "philosophical and metaphorical" way.

Atleast you understood what I'm trying to say at the surface level. Good beginning. Now try and apply some common sense to that understanding and you'll understand the meaning of what I say.

So does this prove that given no rules for interpretation, the Vedic scriptures can be interpreted in a "bugged way".

Yes...they can be interpreted in a bugged way. Note the word "can". I'm not saying they should be interpreted in a bugged way.

Just by listening is soothing, aha. A philosophical thought tells that life is not music, not to just listen and sooth but to comprehend and act upon.

Now that you prefer to quote wikipedia, which for your information is not a conclusive source of information, but again as you prefer to live by it.

If I quote conclusive and established facts from history, you find the proof incomplete.

If I quote from hindu websites, you'll call it a baja.

Would you mind telling me what a conclusive source is, according to you? Islamic websites?

Here is waht it talks about one such metaphorical interpratation. - Devadasi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devadasi

Devadasi (in Sanskrit "servant of god") is a religious practice still found in some Hindu communities, especially in southern India, whereby at young girls are "married" to a deity or a temple.

A Devadasi will usually acquire a "patron" after her deflowering ceremony. "Patronship in a majority of cases is achieved at the time of the dedication ceremony itself. The patron who secures this right of spending the first night with the girl may maintain a permanent liaison with the girl by paying a fixed sum of money or he can maintain the relationship for a fixed period of time on payment or he can simply terminate the liaison after the deflowering ceremony. A permanent liaison with a patron does not bar the girl from entertaining other clients, unless he specifies otherwise. In case the girl entertains, other men have to leave the girl’s house when her patron comes.

Now, that's a custom which doesn't have any religious origins, although the perpetrators of this blatant crime are giving religion as an excuse for it. Wikipedia has written how the system works. And they're right on.

You'll also notice that nowhere is the system attributed to the vedas. Also note the part that I've marked in bold. It says that the custom is prevalant only in some communities. Can you explain why a priest in a small north indian town hasn't ever heard the word Devdasi? He would have had it been a part of scriptures, wouldn't he?

The origin of this can be traced back to some paedophilic s-o-b who was termed a Brahmin under Manu's flawed "caste" system. What better way to legitimise his _ up lust than to put it through to stupid and dogmatic followers in the name of religion? Now, when an irresponsible laity follows a demented priest blindly, would you call it something wrong with the religion itself or with those supposedly following it?

Lets talk about other rights as they come. Can you look up the scriptures and interpretate and tell me if this is an acceptable right of a women. (for your information history records girls as young as 3-4 to have become Devdasis.)

Quote a verse from the vedas that says that Devdasis should exist. I'll interpret it for the benefit of everyone around, and not just you. Let me tell you beforehand itself that the only place you'll see such an interpretation would be on islamic websites or in essays written by that proud_dalit clone Soma Sablok.

[CtrlAltDel]

even the few 100 years old "Word-Of-God", "Unchangable" Quran has been twisted, warped and misused by the "faithful" in various countries, so what chance does an almost 5000 year old scripture stand, esp that which allows full freedom to interpret its verses? its natural for social evils to creep in!



the difference lies in the readiness of hindus to question the evil and change it with laws. did u hear any hindu organization (incl. the RSS) ir citizen protesting against laws that outlawed evils like caste discrimination, dowry, devdasi system, sati etc etc. thats because every one knows that its not actually sanctioned in the vedas or anywhere else.



take "Divorce" for instance...its not present in hinduism nor in most other religions. but islam had that concept and it was adopted by all other religions, incl hinduism, thru laws. did any zealot come up saying its an islamic practice and shud not be allowed for hindus or anyone?



on contrast try asking the saudi clerics to allow women to drive, or indian muslims to outlaw triple talaq in one sitting!



can muslims in an islamic country dare to change their local version of shariat that is riddled with social evils pertaining to that locality? at worst they will be beheaded or stoned to death for even thinking about it.

[sp]

HINDUISM FOR NOOBS



fhdb is full of our people so I think this topic is very irrelevant and ineffective for these DBs. If we really want to be heard we should take this mission outside fhdb, specifically The Simpsons-- the most popular primetime tv show in the land of the free that is our America. This show has seriously went overboard to propagate hatred against Hinduism. This show is guilty of demeaning Hinduism by making fun of goddesses and has succeeded in brainwashing the newer, naive generation of Americans. These naive American kids happen to be classmates of my cousin's kids and his children's self-esteem has been scarred forever by these white kids. All that muslim children get called are ragheads and camel jockeys. All in all Hindu gods and practises are humiliated and his children have begun feeling insecure with their identity and standing up for what they believe in. I don't want this to happen to my children. I am dazed and confused of life. There are a lot of things that worry me. Please help me.



Soul Searcher

srip

[sp]

She is athiest by no means. She prays 5 times a day when she has exams but doesn't know answers to simple questions about her faith because she never questioned.

this trend is worrying me a lot. Our boys falling for those meat eating carnivore women (Having touched meat can they even be called women?) and our girls falling for their carnivore boys. This is what I predict will happen to your kids if you marry this woman: You will raise your children as Hindus and this dumb meat eating woman will not object (it is a fact that eating meat will lower your IQ. So beware of meat all of you here). but when the kids grow up, they are going to see how their religion is being potrayed in the media and they would want to break free from those stereotypes. That's when your daughter with Ram's blood will begin identifying herself with your wife's religion (so as not to reduce her identity to a "red dot" on the forehead). She will begin dating an adorable and dumb meat-eating mulsim boy or a white boy. Now would you want that to happen?



On a serious note, I wish i had an imaginary girlfried too like you do (as long as she is anything but a muslim). And leave it at just that my son-- let her stay imaginary. You don't want to pollute the pure blood that would run in your child's veins with an impure meat-eating woman's blood. It would cost them their IQ points too.



Soul Searching

sp

[sp]

Since this is primarily a thread to understand Hinduism, I shall pose a question that I had previously posted a few months ago on these boards.

What does Hinduism have to say about the origin of the species? Does it say where we have all originated from or are the scriptures mum on this subject? From whatever I have read (it is not much, but still quite considerable), I have not been able to figure out the answer to this one question.

Can anyone help?

This topic has been discussed here: http://www.fullhyderabad.com/discussion ... hp?t=39947



Soul Searching

sp

[sp]

this trend is worrying me a lot. Our boys falling for those meat eating carnivore women (Having touched meat can they even be called women?) and our girls falling for their carnivore boys. This is what I predict will happen to your kids if you marry this woman: You will raise your children as Hindus and this dumb meat eating woman will not object (it is a fact that eating meat will lower your IQ. So beware of meat all of you here). but when the kids grow up, they are going to see how their religion is being potrayed in the media and they would want to break free from those stereotypes. That's when your daughter with Ram's blood will begin identifying herself with your wife's religion (so as not to reduce her identity to a "red dot" on the forehead). She will begin dating an adorable and dumb meat-eating mulsim boy or a white boy. Now would you want that to happen?

On a serious note, I wish i had an imaginary girlfried too like you do (as long as she is anything but a muslim). And leave it at just that my son-- let her stay imaginary. You don't want to pollute the pure blood that would run in your child's veins with an impure meat-eating woman's blood. It would cost them their IQ points too.

Soul Searching
sp

The only beings worth calling females are our herbivore Hindu women. They are THE women. Jewish women and mulsim women are carnivore too. But I think western Christian women are the most carnivore of all. I like how our women avoid animal-eating tendencies when,us, their very own husbands have succumbed to the appeal of chicken. We have caused our blood to be impure. Since our women have so many repressed desires and they have succumbed to the appeal of those desires, would it be safe if i say they are the only creatures worth calling 'females'? You bet.

[sp]

this trend is worrying me a lot. Our boys falling for those meat eating carnivore women (Having touched meat can they even be called women?) and our girls falling for their carnivore boys. This is what I predict will happen to your kids if you marry this woman: You will raise your children as Hindus and this dumb meat eating woman will not object (it is a fact that eating meat will lower your IQ. So beware of meat all of you here). but when the kids grow up, they are going to see how their religion is being potrayed in the media and they would want to break free from those stereotypes. That's when your daughter with Ram's blood will begin identifying herself with your wife's religion (so as not to reduce her identity to a "red dot" on the forehead). She will begin dating an adorable and dumb meat-eating mulsim boy or a white boy. Now would you want that to happen?

On a serious note, I wish i had an imaginary girlfried too like you do (as long as she is anything but a muslim). And leave it at just that my son-- let her stay imaginary. You don't want to pollute the pure blood that would run in your child's veins with an impure meat-eating woman's blood. It would cost them their IQ points too.

Soul Searching
sp

The only beings worth calling females are our herbivore Hindu women. They are THE women. Jewish women and mulsim women are carnivore too. But I think western Christian women are the most carnivore of all. I like how our women avoid animal-eating tendencies when,us, their very own husbands have succumbed to the appeal of chicken. We have caused our blood to be impure. Since our women have so many repressed desires and they have NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER succumbed to the appeal of those desires, would it be safe if i say they are the only creatures worth calling 'females'? You bet.

[CtrlAltDel]

herbivore...carnivore...kya kya baataan karre re tu....



muh bandh rakh thode din...

[sp]

kia bhi nai karra



excuse my autistic tendencies

[Mayavi Morpheus]

excuse my autistic tendencies

In not so politically correct terms, RETARDED

[sp]

Thanku for putting it in simpler english